[OpenSCAD] 3D Builder

Discussion:

fractorr

2016-01-22 16:11:47 UTC

I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It allows to
to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the design. I
need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike the 3D
Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like this?

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Marius Kintel

2016-01-22 16:19:30 UTC

Permalink

From the top of my head, nothing Open Source.

What are you trying to achieve with such a tool btw.? Importing, moving and resizing STL files sounds like a very limited feature set, unless your goal is to manually lay out parts for 3D printing..

-Marius

fractorr

2016-01-22 16:28:19 UTC

Permalink

That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I
created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and
various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D printing.
Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a couple with an
SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D builder and it was
easier to make a design but the interface for 3D builder is horrible.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:20 AM, kintel [via OpenSCAD] <

Post by fractorr

On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:11 AM, fractorr <[hidden email]
I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It

allows to

to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the design.

need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike the

Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like

this?
From the top of my head, nothing Open Source.
What are you trying to achieve with such a tool btw.? Importing, moving
and resizing STL files sounds like a very limited feature set, unless your
goal is to manually lay out parts for 3D printing..
-Marius
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Marius Kintel

2016-01-22 16:33:08 UTC

Permalink

Wouldn’t your 3D print preparation software (Cura, Slic3r etc.) have all this functionality?
-Marius

That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D printing. Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a couple with an SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D builder and it was easier to make a design but the interface for 3D builder is horrible.

Ari Diacou

2016-01-22 16:43:55 UTC

Permalink

I have recently tried 3D builder. I like the Cura interface more (although
I used it first, and extensively, so maybe that's just preference).

Wouldnât your 3D print preparation software (Cura, Slic3r etc.) have all
this functionality?
-Marius

Post by fractorr
That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I

fractorr

2016-01-22 16:44:22 UTC

Permalink

The problem is that I don't have a 3D printer, I was going to use a service
like sculpteo.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:34 AM, kintel [via OpenSCAD] <

Wouldnât your 3D print preparation software (Cura, Slic3r etc.) have all
this functionality?
-Marius

On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:28 AM, fractorr <[hidden email]
That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I

created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and
various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D printing.
Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a couple with an
SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D builder and it was
easier to make a design but the interface for 3D builder is horrible.
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Marius Kintel

2016-01-22 17:05:02 UTC

Permalink

The problem is that I don't have a 3D printer, I was going to use a service like sculpteo.

Having never used Sculpteo, I would expect this to be one of their core UI tools. Looks like there is some room for innovation in that domain :)

Doug’s suggestion to use Slic3r is good. Cura can also export the build plate as STL.

-Marius

Tim Hawkins

2016-01-22 17:11:50 UTC

Permalink

What about meshmixer?

Post by fractorr
That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I
created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and
various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D printing.
Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a couple with an
SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D builder and it was
easier to make a design but the interface for 3D builder is horrible.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:20 AM, kintel [via OpenSCAD] <[hidden email]

Post by fractorr

On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:11 AM, fractorr <[hidden email]
I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It

allows to

to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the design.

need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike

the 3D

Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like

this?
From the top of my head, nothing Open Source.
What are you trying to achieve with such a tool btw.? Importing, moving
and resizing STL files sounds like a very limited feature set, unless your
goal is to manually lay out parts for 3D printing..
-Marius
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Trevor Orr

2016-01-22 17:15:04 UTC

Permalink

Did not think there would be so many options to choose from. I am going to
try them all out and see which one works best for me.

Post by Tim Hawkins
What about meshmixer?

Post by fractorr

On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:11 AM, fractorr <[hidden email]
I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It

allows to

to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the

design. I

need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike

the 3D

Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like

this?
From the top of my head, nothing Open Source.
What are you trying to achieve with such a tool btw.? Importing, moving
and resizing STL files sounds like a very limited feature set, unless your
goal is to manually lay out parts for 3D printing..
-Marius
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Torsten Paul

2016-01-22 17:22:30 UTC

Permalink

Post by Trevor Orr
Did not think there would be so many options to choose from. I am
going to try them all out and see which one works best for me.

If it's about generating a somewhat (space) optimized arrangement
of STL files, you could also have a look at simarrange. I think
it's a command line tool and I don't know if it's still maintained,
but as you say you have hundreds of objects, some automation might
be worth a try too...

https://guillaume.segu.in/blog/code/517/simarrange-a-smart-fast-stl-plater-by-kliment/

ciao,
Torsten.

Trevor Orr

2016-01-22 17:26:08 UTC

Permalink

It's not for optimized arrangement, some layouts may have 20-30 parts added
to it while other layouts myave have 50 or more parts added it, the parts
are all added together to make one big part.

Post by Torsten Paul

Post by Trevor Orr
Did not think there would be so many options to choose from. I am
going to try them all out and see which one works best for me.

If it's about generating a somewhat (space) optimized arrangement
of STL files, you could also have a look at simarrange. I think
it's a command line tool and I don't know if it's still maintained,
but as you say you have hundreds of objects, some automation might
be worth a try too...
https://guillaume.segu.in/blog/code/517/simarrange-a-smart-fast-stl-plater-by-kliment/
ciao,
Torsten.
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Carsten Arnholm

2016-01-22 17:53:06 UTC

Permalink

Post by fractorr
That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I
created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and
various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D
printing. Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a
couple with an SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D
builder and it was easier to make a design but the interface for 3D
builder is horrible.

It sounds like you want to assemble/layout several STL files and
generate a new STL file to send for printing. The slicers mentioned
(including the one I use - KISSlicer) can do the layout, but the output
is gcode, not an assembled STL.

As you already have scad files for your parts, you could assemble them
using OpenSCAD obviously. I have done something similar in the past
where I create modules

module part1() {...}
module part2() {...}

Then later, perform the layout for printing

module print_layout()
{
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) part1();
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) part2();
}
print_layout();
and export the assembly as a single STL.

Now, it could be that your list of parts is too long/complex so OpenSCAD
is unable to complete the job in reasonable time (or at all). If you
already have good STL files it may seem like the wrong approach, did you
try something like this:

module print_layout()
{
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) import("part1.stl");
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) import("part2.stl");
}

Finally: Maybe it already exists somewhere, but a program to import
several STL files like above, transform each one separately and just
assemble them out as a single STL would be useful, in particular for
those who don't own a printer. There would be no boolean operations,
just visual collision check. All STL facets would be kept as is, but
vertex coordinates would be transformed.

Carsten Arnholm

Trevor Orr

2016-01-22 18:06:55 UTC

Permalink

So here is an example of what I am doing, for OpenSCAD to render this and
this is only about 1/2 to 1/3 the number of parts that what actually make
up the final layout and takes about 5 minutes to render and sometimes it
can't draw it at in preview mode and I have to use render mode instead,
which takes a long time.

module layout() {
union() {
translate([0, 0, 0])
rotate([0, 0, 0])
draw_part1();

translate([i2m(1.5), 0, 0])
rotate([0, 0, 0])
draw_part2();
translate([i2m(3.0), 0, 0])
rotate([0, 0, 0])
draw_part2();

translate([i2m(4.5), -i2m(.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, -90])
draw_part3();

translate([i2m(4.5), -i2m(3.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 90])
draw_part4();
translate([i2m(1.5), -i2m(3.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 270])
draw_part5();
translate([i2m(1.5), -i2m(3.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 270])
draw_part6();
translate([i2m(1.5), -i2m(3.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 180])
draw_part6();
translate([-i2m(1.5), -i2m(3.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 0])
draw_part7();

translate([-i2m(1.5), -i2m(.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 180])
draw_part1();
translate([-i2m(2.25), -i2m(.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 90])
draw_part3();
translate([-i2m(2.25), i2m(.75), 0])
rotate([0, 0, 90])
draw_part4();
}
}

Post by fractorr
That is exactly what I am wanting to do. I have an SCAD library that I
created that generates several hundred SCAD files of various shapes and
various sizes and I want to lay a bunch of them together for 3D
printing. Would just be easier to do with a visual app, I have made a
couple with an SCAD file but it takes a while to do, I then used 3D
builder and it was easier to make a design but the interface for 3D
builder is horrible.

It sounds like you want to assemble/layout several STL files and generate
a new STL file to send for printing. The slicers mentioned (including the
one I use - KISSlicer) can do the layout, but the output is gcode, not an
assembled STL.
As you already have scad files for your parts, you could assemble them
using OpenSCAD obviously. I have done something similar in the past where I
create modules
module part1() {...}
module part2() {...}
Then later, perform the layout for printing
module print_layout()
{
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) part1();
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) part2();
}
print_layout();
and export the assembly as a single STL.
Now, it could be that your list of parts is too long/complex so OpenSCAD
is unable to complete the job in reasonable time (or at all). If you
already have good STL files it may seem like the wrong approach, did you
module print_layout()
{
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) import("part1.stl");
translate(..) rotate(..) scale(..) import("part2.stl");
}
Finally: Maybe it already exists somewhere, but a program to import
several STL files like above, transform each one separately and just
assemble them out as a single STL would be useful, in particular for those
who don't own a printer. There would be no boolean operations, just visual
collision check. All STL facets would be kept as is, but vertex coordinates
would be transformed.
Carsten Arnholm
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Mekko

2016-01-22 18:51:10 UTC

Permalink

If I'm understanding factorr's issue correctly then I have a couple of
observations based on my own experiences.

First of all, there are several 3D printer services who will sell you a
volume to print and you can fill the volume however you like. In some cases
the volume dimensions are pre-determined (e.g.,
http://www.digits2widgets.com/3d_printing_prices/nylon_sls_containers/) and
in some cases the volume dimensions are up to you (e.g.,
https://i.materialise.com/container-upload and
https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk/pricing/). I have used all three of those
services and compared to Shapeways and Sculpteo (whom I have also used)
those three are all *much* less expensive and all are great on customer
service. For example, one of my parts was $20.86 at Shapeways and $8.08 at
3DPRINTUK.

Second of all, the problem that factorr is hitting with OpenSCAD is a "right
tool for the job" kind of problem. I had eight parts, fairly complex, and I
tried a) putting all the code in one .scad file and rendering all of them,
and b) exporting .stl files for each of the parts and then using a separate
.scad file and translate() import() calls to position the collection of
parts. OpenSCAD crashed both ways and I don't really fault it - that's not
its job.

So I use MeshLab for positioning. I import all my .stl meshes, position
them, and then use the Filters/Mesh Layer/Flatten Visible Layers command to
create a unified mesh that I then export as a .stl file. It has a boundary
box view that helps with this considerably.

With respect to slicers, I use Cura for driving my 3D printer and it
provides a way for positioning pieces in the XY plane but, as far as I know,
not along the Z axis. Maybe the other slicers have better functionality in
this area but again, I'm still not sure their main purpose is to support XYZ
positioning.

Hope this helps!

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doug moen

2016-01-22 23:47:09 UTC

Permalink

Of the slicers I mentioned, MakerWare lets you control the Z position, and
Slic3r won't. Slic3r has a few commands missing in MakerWare: split a scene
into disjoint objects, and slice a single object into pieces. MakerWare has
a better GUI.

Mekko said: "I had eight parts, fairly complex, and I
tried a) putting all the code in one .scad file and rendering all of them,
and b) exporting .stl files for each of the parts and then using a separate
.scad file and translate() import() calls to position the collection of
parts. OpenSCAD crashed both ways"

There's no good reason why OpenSCAD needs to crash in this scenario.
Clearly, there are other mesh tools that can perform the same job without
crashing.

Post by Mekko
If I'm understanding factorr's issue correctly then I have a couple of
observations based on my own experiences.
First of all, there are several 3D printer services who will sell you a
volume to print and you can fill the volume however you like. In some cases
the volume dimensions are pre-determined (e.g.,
http://www.digits2widgets.com/3d_printing_prices/nylon_sls_containers/) and
in some cases the volume dimensions are up to you (e.g.,
https://i.materialise.com/container-upload and
https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk/pricing/). I have used all three of those
services and compared to Shapeways and Sculpteo (whom I have also used)
those three are all *much* less expensive and all are great on customer
service. For example, one of my parts was $20.86 at Shapeways and $8.08 at
3DPRINTUK.
Second of all, the problem that factorr is hitting with OpenSCAD is a "right
tool for the job" kind of problem. I had eight parts, fairly complex, and I
tried a) putting all the code in one .scad file and rendering all of them,
and b) exporting .stl files for each of the parts and then using a separate
.scad file and translate() import() calls to position the collection of
parts. OpenSCAD crashed both ways and I don't really fault it - that's not
its job.
So I use MeshLab for positioning. I import all my .stl meshes, position
them, and then use the Filters/Mesh Layer/Flatten Visible Layers command to
create a unified mesh that I then export as a .stl file. It has a boundary
box view that helps with this considerably.
With respect to slicers, I use Cura for driving my 3D printer and it
provides a way for positioning pieces in the XY plane but, as far as I know,
not along the Z axis. Maybe the other slicers have better functionality in
this area but again, I'm still not sure their main purpose is to support XYZ
positioning.
Hope this helps!
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doug moen

2016-01-22 16:53:44 UTC

Permalink

You can do all of this in Slic3r, which is open source. You use the Add
command to add each STL file to the platform. You move the objects around
using direct manipulation. You can scale an object, uniformly or
non-uniformly, using the Scale command in the right mouse button menu. You
can export the resulting array of objects to either STL or AMF. You'll need
to enable expert mode; some of the above commands are disabled by default.

Post by fractorr
I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It allows to
to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the design. I
need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike the 3D
Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like this?
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fractorr

2016-01-22 17:04:03 UTC

Permalink

I downloaded Slic3r and it looks like this will do what I want, just need
to learn how to use t properly.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:54 AM, doug.moen [via OpenSCAD] <

Post by doug moen
You can do all of this in Slic3r, which is open source. You use the Add
command to add each STL file to the platform. You move the objects around
using direct manipulation. You can scale an object, uniformly or
non-uniformly, using the Scale command in the right mouse button menu. You
can export the resulting array of objects to either STL or AMF. You'll need
to enable expert mode; some of the above commands are disabled by default.
On 22 January 2016 at 11:11, fractorr <[hidden email]

Post by fractorr
I have been trying to find an app like Microsoft's 3D Builder. It allows to
to add multiple stl files and move/size each stl object in the design. I
need something like this but with a good interface, I really dislike the 3D
Builder interface. Anyone know of an open source app of any kind like this?
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doug moen

2016-01-22 17:04:23 UTC

Permalink

You can also do this using MakerWare, which is not open source. I think the
GUI is nicer than Slic3r for this particular work flow: scaling is done
using direct manipulation, and moving things around is nicer (Slic3r
recenters the group after each operation). You can import and export STL
(no AMF support).

David Eccles (gringer)

2016-01-22 17:30:23 UTC

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Repetier Host allows you to manipulate 3D objects and save the result
as STL files:

http://www.repetier.com/

- David

jpmendes

2016-01-22 18:16:02 UTC

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Hello

If you have the .stl files already just make a module to import those you
want, and place them as you like.

jpmendes

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fractorr

2016-01-22 18:28:00 UTC

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Ah!!!!! I was not aware I could import stl files like that. This sure
makes rendering these larger layouts so much faster. Using ones of these
apps would still probably make it easier to assemble these layouts but
knowing the import works like that could save me a lot of waiting time for
rendering.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:16 AM, jpmendes [via OpenSCAD] <

Post by jpmendes
Hello
If you have the .stl files already just make a module to import those you
want, and place them as you like.
jpmendes
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Neon22

2016-01-22 18:25:30 UTC

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I recently saw this project which uses genetic alg to pack SVG shapes and is
written inJavascript.
I'm considering porting to Python.
A great addition would be to also do this with STL files. Probably assuming
they were already in a suitable "up" configuration for printing.

https://github.com/Jack000/SVGnest

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